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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/09/1989 Meeting - e M I NUT E S Eugene City Council/Eugene Downtown Commission Dinner/Work Session BJ's Restaurant--44 East 7th Avenue October 9, 1989 5:30 p.m. COUNCILORS PRESENT: Ruth Bascom, Shawn Boles, Debra Ehrman, Bobby Green, Emily Schue, Freeman Holmer, Rob Bennett. COUNCILORS ABSENT: Roger Rutan. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Julie Aspinwall-Lamberts, Michael Schwartz, Cordy Jensen, Mary Young, John Brown, Peter Bartels. COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Bjorn Olson. The regular meeting of the Eugene City Council was called to order by Council President Ruth Bascom. e Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts called the meeting of the Eugene Downtown Commission to order. Introductions were made. I. PRESENTATION OF DOWNTOWN COMMISSION WORK PROGRAM Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said the meeting had been scheduled for three primary purposes: first, to follow-up on two specific requests from the City Council. The council requested that the commission bring its work plan back to the meeting, and had asked the commission to develop a plan to open up Olive Street to vehicular traffic. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts noted that this request had been made some time previous so it might not still be fresh in councilors' minds. The second purpose of the meeting was to reinforce the linkage the commission's work plan has with the current goals of the City Council, specifically: implementation of the Downtown Plan and accompanying strategies, the goal relating to encouraging commercial, cultural, and housing development in the core; and the goal of economic development, particularly in terms of strengthening local businesses. Ms. Aspinwall- Lamberts said the commission's work plan ties in with these goals. The third purpose of the meeting was to enable the commission to provide input to the council about downtown issues prior to the council's upcoming goals session. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said the commission was looking for two specific outcomes from the meeting: first, an acceptance or acknowledgement of the work program as presented, and second, a reaffirmation of the council's e MINUTES--City Council/Downtown Commission-- October 9, 1989 Page 1 Dinner/Work Session e previously stated commitment to open Olive Street to vehicular traffic. She referred those in attendance to the agenda posted in the meeting room, and said the bulk of the meeting time would be spent in discussion. Ms. Ehrman said Olive Street had come up in conjunction with the Library project, and she did not remember the council directing the commission to pursue the opening of Olive Street. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said the original discussion had occurred around the Library project or any development on the 8th Avenue and Willamette Street site. This had occurred not in a joint meeting, but in a council meeting. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said the council had directed Mr. Gleason and Mr. Farkas to meet with the Downtown Commission and have the commission return with a process to address the opening of Olive Street. Ms. Bascom recalled asking the staff not to discuss the problems attached to opening Olive Street, but possible approaches and designs that would make the street work. Ms. Bascom believed that this had occurred prior to the Library project and the request had been supported by the council. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said the commission would not walk through the entire work program, but rather present the background and rationale for the areas included in the plan. There are two primary areas: access and circulation, and downtown management. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said the commission's critical focus continues to be that of access. The commission has not changed its position regarding the opening of Willamette Street and will not discuss this issue tonight due to the ongoing work of the Retail Task Force, a group which is addressing circulation and access as well. Mr. Brown briefly discussed the status of downtown. He noted assessed values e in the downtown from 1986-87 to the current year have declined approximately 13 percent; retail vacancy rates have remained stable, while office vacancy rates have declined. Mr. Brown said Development staff conducted a preliminary survey of the owners and tenants on Olive Street. Twelve favored and twelve opposed the opening of Olive Street. Three opposed already have vehicular access to their property. Rental rates in the area of Broadway and Pearl have shown increases, and demand has risen. Access is a critical issue in the market acceptance enjoyed by these retailers. Mr. Brown noted that redevelopment occurred at 10th Avenue and Willamette Street after the reopening of Willamette Street to vehicular traffic. Mr. Brown said access is extremely critical. Mr. Schwartz discussed the objectives and rationales for opening Dlive Street. These included improvement of access and circulation, triggering of private investment, use of Olive Street as a conduit for vehicular traffic in access downtown, strengthening of the pedestrian environment, establishment of a safe and secure shopping and business environment, and creation of additional opportunities for businesses requiring automobile access. Currently, the City has inadequate private investment, poor and inaccurate perceptions of public security downtown, confusion in accessing downtown locations, stagnant and declining property values (4J district assessed values went up 13 percent while downtown values decreased by 13 percent), declining retail market share, inadequate growth in gross retail sales, a lack of Class "A" office space, and undeveloped sites in downtown locations. e MINUTES--City Council/Downtown Commission-- October 9, 1989 Page 2 Dinner/Work Session e Mr. Schwartz noted that the downtown has lost its major retail anchors with a single exception. He noted that any figures quoted tonight for total retail sales would include Sears Roebuck Company, an anchor that has left the downtown. Mr. Schwartz said that cities with nonlinear malls have experienced consistent problems and linear malls have a higher rate of success. Mr. Schwartz said Eugene's experience shows that the redevelopment of Willamette Street to two-way traffic between 10th and 11th avenues was a catalyst for the restoration of the Schaefer's Building and McDonald Theater Building. About $1 million has been invested in building improvements in the one-block area; retail sales in the one-block area since reopening are up 40 percent. Retail appraisers report that the mall inhibits property values and - investments and believe traffic on Olive Street will improve values. Urban designers who have served as consultants to the City, such as Don Miles, believe in the concept of a successful pedestrian/automobile mix in public spaces downtown. Mr. Miles recommended, after study, that Olive Street be converted to a combination pedestrian-vehicle street. He believed that traffic will concentrate and intensify pedestrian activity, increase accessibility to businesses, and increase pedestrian visibility. Mr. Schwartz said a recent survey in the Eugene-Springfield area showed that improving downtown access was second only to recently completed airport improvements and other projects to improve the area's general economic health. Mr. Schwartz said air quality concerns have been addressed by better technology and air quality downtown has improved. It has become more e acceptable in urban design for pedestrians and vehicles to share space, and in many cases this has improved the vitality of urban spaces. Mr. Schwartz presented a slide show illustrating downtown's evolution from the early 1950s to the present time. Mr. Schwartz briefly discussed gross receipts. In 1974 gross receipts downtown were $52 million in retail sales. In today's dollars that would be about $132 million. In 1989, gross receipts are projected to be about $86 million. Without Sears in the picture, the gross receipts would be about $76 million. Mr. Schwartz said the commission was concerned about the growing number of retail centers being built north and south of the Beltline. Mr. Schwartz did not think that the downtown would have lost Sears had it been stronger. One-half million square feet of retail space is being added to the fringes of Eugene and this has impacted downtown considerably. Mr. Schwartz maintained that the mall was not working and the situation must be fixed. He believed opening Olive Street was a start in this direction. He could not assure the council that there would be an increase in gross receipts and sales, but historically this has occurred. Ms. Prichard discussed downtown management issues. She said over the last three years many studies have been done and all have made generally the same recommendations. The same issues of access and visibility were brought up e MINUTES--City Council/Downtown Commission-- October 9, 1989 Page 3 Dinner/Work Session e over and over again. Ms. Prichard said the reports indicated that unless something is done soon, the downtown will continue to lose market share. Ms. Prichard discussed recommendations made by various experts regarding downtown. These included development of a management plan, continuing promotion of future office-related commercial developments, location of housing in the downtown, recognition of downtown as a primary destination point, creation of a market-driven merchandising plan, development of centralized retail management downtown, and creation of north-south access downtown. Ms. Prichard referred to the work being done by the Retail Task Force, and said this work dovetailed very well with the work being done by that group. Ms. Prichard said while access is essential, it has to be done in conjunction with a good management program. She said during the last task force meeting, the group was stymied in its progress because members realized that they could not work on a retail management plan without discussing access. Ms. Prichard believed that increased access and a downtown management plan would ensure security and good maintenance. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said the commission is seeking reaffirmation from the council to proceed with the process of opening Olive Street in an expeditious fashion. She said the commission recognizes the key players that must be involved in the discussion, such as Lane Transit District, the Citizen Involvement Committee, Downtown Eugene, Inc., and the Planning Commission, among others. The commission intended to bring these players into the process. She said the commission does not want to lose time getting these groups together, and would like to focus on its vision of how the area should e look and how vehicular traffic would operate on the street. Mr. Schwartz discussed the approach to the street opening. He said the commission must, within its short time line, bring the involved groups together. Public hearings can be held on the redesigned street, with the goal of opening the street after January 1, 1990. Mr. Schwartz said the commission was eager to begin this work, and felt accountability demanded that the commission come to the council with this project. He said in 1978-79 the downtown realized, in present day dollars, $167 million in retail sales. In the current year this figure will be half of that amount, and Mr. Schwartz did not see the situation improving under the status quo. Mr. Holmer referred to goal 1, objective one of the work program, to improve accessibility to downtown businesses. He asked why opening Olive Street was a higher priority now for the commission than the opening of Willamette Street. Ms. Prichard said that the opening was timely due to the development of the Pankow bUilding adjacent to the street. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said if the commission was to present the council with a list of its priorities, opening Willamette Street would be at the top of the list. The commission was attempting to work with the political realities under which the council must operate. Mr. Holmer said he would like a recommendation from the commission about which was the more critical opening. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts polled the commissioners, and they all said opening Willamette Street would be their top priority. Mr. Schwartz said the commission's objective had been to consider the opening of Olive Street as quickly as possible, with the ultimate goal of opening Willamette Street. He said the community will need e MINUTES--City Council/Downtown Commission-- October 9, 1989 Page 4 Dinner/Work Session , e to examine the success of Olive Street and private investment before analyzing Willamette Street again. Ms. Schue said it was not her recollection that the council voted to open Olive Street, but rather had agreed to consider the reopening. She said the community does not like it when the council does not appear to consider its input. Ms. Schue cautioned the commission that their list of involved parties only seems to include City boards and commissions, and that other groups exist that will wish to be involved. She felt it would be wise to share information with both those who support and those who oppose the concept. She encouraged the commission to present its case objectively. Ms. Schue noted that the League of Women Voters' poll of Lane County Fair attendees on the opening of Olive had been overwhelmingly opposed. Mr. Boles congratulated the commission for constructing a work program with clear elements. He said that he had originally come to the council convinced that access and circulation downtown did not need to be addressed, but he had changed his mind. Malls must have shared access with vehicles and pedestrians in at least one direction to be successful. He expressed concern over the absence of the word "quality" in the commission's approach to the reopening. Mr. Boles felt that to give the street anything less than the highest level of quality would be a mistake. He suggested that the issue is much larger than the opening of Olive Street. This concept merely sets the stage for discussion. Downtown patterns for vehicles and people are the major issue. Mr. Boles said the Retail Task Force had to make the assumption that the access and circulation issues were resolved before it could work on e the issue of downtown management. He was not convinced that the task force could handle the larger issue of access and circulation, however. He said perhaps a larger task force to examine access and circulation downtown is necessary. Mr. Boles expressed concern over the lack of a downtown plaza or location for events such as the Eugene Celebration due to the loss of the lot at 8th Avenue and Willamette Street. He concluded by saying that he supported the commission's concept, but felt it belonged in a larger context. Ms. Ehrman said she shared some of Mr. Boles thoughts, and asked what type of street the commission was considering when it looked at Olive Street. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said this was where commission discussion broke down. Commissioners realized that they needed to involve more people in that discussion, such as LTD and the Public Works Department. Ms. Ehrman expressed concern over the closeness of the playground located on Broadway to Olive Street and traffic following the proposed opening. Ms. Ehrman said that it sounded to her as though the commission was attempting to use the reopening of Olive Street as a lever to reopen Willamette Street. Mr. Jensen remarked that it would be interesting to know, of those who voted in opposition to the opening of Olive Street at the fair, how many of them shop and frequent downtown. He said this vote was indicative of the lack of knowledge among Eugene's citizens about what actually happens downtown. e MINUTES--City Council/Downtown Commission-- October 9, 1989 Page 5 Dinner/Work Session . Addressing Ms. Ehrman's comments, Ms. Morrow said she did not think the commission ever lost sight of the opening of Willamette Street as its number one priority, but the opening of Olive Street had come up in conjunction with the Pankow development. Ms. Young agreed with Ms. Morrow's remarks. She said the commission was also attempting to respond to the direction that commissioners believed that they received at the last joint meeting with the City Council. Mr. Schwartz noted that Councilor Holmer had urged the commission to aggressively pursue its work plan. The commission had followed this recommendation in developing its program. Mr. Schwartz pointed out that, during discussions with the City Council in 1984, a task force had been proposed to examine the Willamette Street and Olive Street reopenings. This had never occurred. At that time, the city still had three of its five anchors downtown. Now there is one anchor left. Mr. Schwartz said all the right parties need. to be brought together to discuss the issue, and he recommended that it be done rapidly before the city loses its last anchor downtown and retail sales drop. Ms. Schue agreed with Mr. Jensen's remarks that there is a case to be made that people have not been fully informed about downtown issues. However, she hoped that the commission's proposal did not generate public uproar. She did not want the issue to become a political football, and hoped that the commission did not present the issue to the public as a way to solve downtown1s crime problem or retain The Bon as an anchor. Ms. Schue was unsure whether the city lost its downtown anchors because Willamette and Olive streets were closed. It could not be proved one way or another. Ms. Schue encouraged an upbeat approach, and the use of statistics such as those e cited by Mr. Brown. Mr. Green asked who would bear the cost of the financial impact of the street reopening, and how the City would recover its investment in the project. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts responded that the ultimate design of the road would have a major affect on the cost of the project. Until this is done, it would be difficult to gauge the cost. Mr. Schwartz said the money would not come out of the City's General Fund, but would be taken from gross receipts on sales and the ad valorem tax. The City would benefit from any increase in gross receipts on sales as these funds go to the Downtown Development District. Mr. Boles pointed to the availability of public anchors in the downtown. Responding to Mr. Schwartz's desire to pursue the opening in a rapid fashion, Mr. Boles felt that this would exacerbate tension already present in the community. He said the only way to address the concern of public participation and the reopening is to put boundaries around the council's vision of downtown and present it to the community for consideration. Ms. Prichard said people who rent retail space want to locate where their business will succeed. It was her experience as a broker that it was difficult to persuade people to locate on the mal led portions of downtown. Retailers want access. Ms. Prichard added that a downtown with character and a personality is important to the community. e MINUTES--City Council/Downtown Commission-- October 9, 1989 Page 6 Dinner/Work Session e Mr. Bennett asked about the status of the Retail Task Force, observing that the task force has broad-based community representation. He said the idea behind the task force was that it would not get bogged down in street openings. He understood the role of the Retail Task Force to be an examination of consensus in terms of vision of where the retail sector should be downtown, and how downtown should operate. Do we want office space at ground level or not? Is it possible to have a well-thought tenant mix plan under centralized retail management or not? Where is it appropriate to have night life? Where is it appropriate to have restaurants with sidewalk cafes? Where is it appropriate to have soft goods retail or service retail? Mr. Bennett said this is no different from the considerations that take place when designing an enclosed suburban shopping center. He understood that as part of this mission, the task force might take advantage of outside expertise. Mr. Bennett said regardless of the different points of view expressed on the task force, the responsibility of each faction is to develop a specific vision of downtown. Issues such as the potential, or lack of, for mixed use; the potential, or lack of, for housing; the potential, or lack, of speculation office space; all of these issues can be addressed on a comprehensive basis. Mr. Bennett said he was convinced of this approach. Even if it was politically possible to make a case to the community for opening Olive Street, this does not address in a comprehensive way, the issues surrounding the success of downtown and its place in the community. He said he was very interested in the task force's work and did not wish it to become bogged down in circulation and access issues immediately. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said the task force has not lost sight of the e objectives described by Mr. Bennett. Access will come up in the task force discussions. There is no way to address tenant mix issues, for example, without some discussion of access. She anticipated that the task force will proceed on the course outlined by Mr. Bennett. She said the task force is very diverse in composition and, after only a few meetings, the group is still team-building. She described this progress as excellent, saying that she had never before seen people with such diverse interests and points of view come together so quickly. Ms. Prichard said the task force had reached a stopping point when it attempted to come up with a marketing plan without addressing access issues. The group resolved to develop a plan by assuming that all access questions are resolved. Addressing Mr. Bennett, Ms. Bascom said she was under the impression that Mr. Bennett thought the access issue should be discussed at the same time as other issues being worked on by the task force, but his remarks tonight seemed to indicate that he believed that other issues should be resolved prior to the task force tackling access. Mr. Bennett said it was his view that it is difficult to accomplish centralized retail management without looking at the physical environment. He said some people disagree with his point of view. The task force has an opportunity to present different points of view, with supporting evidence, based on the group's collective vision of what downtown should look like. He did not think it was helpful to e MINUTES--City Council/Downtown Commission-- October 9, 1989 Page 7 Dinner/Work Session e continually have the same arguments about downtown. He felt the task force's work could be beneficial to the community as a whole. Ms. Bascom asked Mr. Bennett if he recommended backing off on the Olive Street issue until the task force makes its final report. Mr. Bennett said that was his recommendation. He added that downtown's perimeter development might make the opening of the street more of a necessity, but noted that the necessity of opening the street to traffic for traffic circulation has scarcely been addressed tonight. Ms. Bascom said the issue of reopening Olive Street had been sent to the Downtown Commission by the council after community rejection of opening Willamette Street. It was her recollection that the issue of frustration with access was raised by citizens. Community frustration with downtown circulation continued to be a problem. Ms. Bascom said that at the time, the council was told that Olive Street would be too difficult to reopen. It appeared to her that it would be worth finding out if Olive Street could be reopened, and what it would cost. Ms. Bascom said the council still needed this information. She would be interested in knowing basic design schemes and cost estimates for the reopening of the street. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said in order to reach this point, it did not make sense for the commission to work in isolation. Now was the time to call in other significant players and develop a vision for an open Olive Street. Ms. Bascom said she was comfortable with passing the issue to the task force to consider. Mr. Boles said the task force has a lot of work to do. He did not think that the task force, as presently scheduled and staffed could address both retail management and access and circulation in any rapid time frame. Mr. Boles e said the council could increase the membership of the group, divide it into two groups, and set the groups on parallel courses to examine the two issues, or constitute an entire new group to deal with access and circulation. Mr. Bartel said he did not think that retail management and access issues could be separated. He said while the City Council has a goal to make the downtown a place where office and retail development occurred, on the other hand, it continues to approve the development of retail shopping centers on the urban fringes. The council, in its Metro Plan Update, needs to stop development Mr. Bartel termed "willy-nilly." Mr. Green said due to the time constraints faced by the Retail Task Force, the council should be prepared to receive a less-than-comprehensive, though nonetheless informative, study. The council must be prepared to make a decision based upon that study. He felt that if the issue is brought to the public as part of a comprehensive, uniform study, the community may be more receptive. Ms. Morrow suggested that the task force address the issues of tenant mix as though all the streets were open. At the same time, the Downtown Commission could take a broad look at street designs for the reopening of Olive Street. This information could be forwarded to whatever group the council deemed appropriate. e MINUTES--City Council/Downtown Commission-- October 9, 1989 Page 8 Dinner/Work Session e Mr. Schwartz said he believed that the total vision of downtown must be considered. It was his concern that the vision keeps changing. He pointed to the development taking place on Country Club Road while downtown continues to experience vacancy. Retail sales have fallen while development takes place on the fringes. The vision could change in 24 hours if, for example, Nordstrom wished to locate downtown. He was frustrated by years of discussion of process and consensus building; it has gotten downtown no where. Sales have eroded and office space has disappeared. Mr. Schwartz said the council exhibits different attitudes for development in the Chad Street area, for example, than it exhibits for development downtown. Mr. Schwartz said everyone seems to want a viable, vital, quality downtown, but it takes years to do consensus building while downtown continues to go down. Mr. Holmer proposed that the council direct the Downtown Commission to undertake, before January 1, 1990, an examination of designs for reopening Olive Street and a funding plan. In addition, he wished the commission to develop information about the fiscal scope of the opening of Willamette Street. Ms. Ehrman asked about the possibility of adding councilors to such an effort. Mr. Bennett said he believed in the work that the Retail Task Force was attempting to accomplish. He did not think the proposal would help. Ms. Ehrman said it could not hurt. Responding to a question from Mr. Bennett, Ms. Bohman said she could not pinpoint a date for the task force's work to be finished. Mr. Gleason said it seemed as though the council wished to have a serious examination of the reopening of Olive Street, but that the examination be e part of a larger, more comprehensive study of downtown. The council wishes to have the commission develop a plan that parallels the work of the Retail Task Force and opens a discussion with all the interested parties. Councilors agreed that this summary was accurate. City Councilors left the meeting at 7:20 p.m. Commissioners debriefed the meeting. Commissioners agreed that it had been useful to hear Mr. Bennett's description of the mission of the Retail Task Force as it focused the work of the group in their minds. Ms. Aspinwall- Lamberts said she would like the issue of access to move faster than she anticipated that the work of the task force will. She suggested an entirely separate group with a similar composition work on access. Ms. Aspinwall- lamberts said for the commission to work on the issue alone would be a mistake. Commissioners agreed with this statement. Commissioners agreed that the task force would continue in its work while the Downtown Commission worked with staff to develop schematic designs for the opening of Olive Street. A variety of designs and a funding scheme could be developed, and this work incorporated into the work of the task force at a later time. The commission could invite representatives from various points of view to review the designs after a good start has been made. Mr. Schwartz suggested that the commission involve City Councilors in the design work. Commissioners agreed this would be a good idea. - MINUTES--City Council/Downtown Commission-- October 9, 1989 Page 9 Dinner/Work Session --- . e Due to the heavy agenda schedule of the commission, commissioners resolved to meet more frequently for the next few weeks to work on a design for reopening the street. Mr. Brown recommended that the commission examine the work done by the Schaefer's Building architecture group and incorporate it into its deliberations. Staff agreed to provide preliminary designs for a variety of traffic patterns on Olive Street for commission review. II. MEETING SURVEY Ms. Morrow said she liked the final decision reached by the commission. She felt that the reopening of Olive Street should be the commission1s only agenda item for some time. Mr. Brown said that it was important to meet the challenge provided by the council. He wanted to reach a point in the downtown where the City no longer had to subsidize development. Ms. Young concurred with Mr. Brown. She said she wished to have closure on this issue. Ms. Young expressed concern that as the process continues, the commission involve other relevant parties to get support for its recommendation. Responding to a request for clarification from Mr. Luell, Ms. Aspinwall- Lamberts said the commission wished to have a serious discussion at its next e meeting about what it wished downtown's cross streets to look like. If drawings are already available, the commission needs to look at those. Other relevant information, such as traffic patterns and counts, should be provided a s we 11 . Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said the commission wishes to look at the entire issue of downtown access. If the architecture students have developed information staff finds usable, the commission would like to see that as well. Mr. Schwartz thanked staff for its time and effort in the meeting presentation. He recommended that the commission stay together on the issue as they work toward closure. Mr. Schwartz felt it was important that the Friends of Downtown be included as much as possible in the issue. He said he shared the same frustration as other commissioners, in that it was difficult to know what the direction from the council was. Mr. Bartel said he had found the meeting interesting. It appeared as though a few councilors are genuinely interested in downtown. It seemed to be strictly a political issue to other councilors. He felt the commission1s task was more difficult when it did not have a firm commitment from the City Council. Mr. Bartel said he would like to have Mr. Brown provide the commission with more information about the Lane Transit District siting project at the commission's next meeting. e MINUTES--City Council/Downtown Commission-- October 9, 1989 Page 10 Dinner/Work Session ~ e In response to a comment from Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts, Ms. Henry suggested that the commission schedule additional meetings to work on the street design. Commissioners agreed with this suggestion. Mr. Schwartz recommended that councilors be invited to participate in the work sessions. Ms. Aspinwall-Lamberts said she would work with staff to develop agendas for the next several months. Mr. Brown said on Friday, October 20, staff will be evaluating potential Lane Transit District sites based on criteria developed by the task force. This is not a regular meeting, but he encouraged commissioners to attend if they wished. Due to the potenti~l difficulty of scheduling additional meetings because of possible prior conflicts, Mr. Jensen suggested that the commission consider lengthening its regularly scheduled meetings. He felt that rapid progress on the design would illustrate to the council the commission's commitment to the project. The meeting adjourned at 8:05 p.m. e (Recorded by Kim Young) MNCC 100989-530 . MINUTES--City Council/Downtown Commission-- October 9, 1989 Page 11 Dinner/Work Session